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Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) for Linux Desktops

Samba - linux mailing list
     Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) is virtualization technology
that hosts a desktop operating system on a centralized server in a
data center. VDI is a variation on the client-server computing model,
sometimes referred to as server-based computing.
searchvirtualdesktop.techtarget.com/definition/virtual-desktop-infrastructure-VDI

Does anyone have experience with VDI for Linux KVM Guest Desktops and
can recommend a working FOSS solution capable for watch Video
(preferably in HD) ?

From my searching today, there is no real working solution as yet.

Potential solutions;

1) Spice - includes video and audio but suffers from screen tearing
and lag

2) VNC - does not support audio

3) XRDP - I was not able to get audio to work, but it might be
possible?

4) KVM-VDI - I do not know much of this product.



http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Desktop_virtualization
The U.S. Company Desktone, which was acquired by VMware in October
2013,[12] [1] has the trademarks on the expressions "desktops as a
service" and "DaaS" from the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.


https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/QEMU#Remote_Desktop_Protocol
https://lwn.net/Articles/611212/
https://www.cb-net.co.uk/linux/debian-8-jessie-enable-rdp-server/
https://www.hiroom2.com/2016/05/24/debian-8-remote-connect-to-gnome3-desktop-with-vnc-xrdp/#sec-6
https://www.howtoforge.com/virtualization-with-kvm-on-a-debian-squeeze-server
http://www.neblogas.lt/2016/07/29/install-ovirt-guest-agent-debian-os-enable-sso/
https://github.com/Seitanas/kvm-vdi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjZTVhHk6ZA
http://myvirtualcloud.net/new-kvm-vdi-open-source-project/
https://mangolassi.it/topic/9900/has-anyone-played-with-kvm-vdi/32








Links:
------
[1] http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Desktop_virtualization#citenote12

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Re: Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) for Linux Desktops

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Have I missed something?
Wasn’t X-11 invented to solve this precise problem?

[the ‘client’ and ‘server’ model, where the ‘X-11 server’ is the display device.]

> On 6 May 2017, at 17:15, George at Clug via linux <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>     Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) is virtualization technology
> that hosts a desktop operating system on a centralized server in a
> data center. VDI is a variation on the client-server computing model,
> sometimes referred to as server-based computing.
> searchvirtualdesktop.techtarget.com/definition/virtual-desktop-infrastructure-VDI
>
> Does anyone have experience with VDI for Linux KVM Guest Desktops and
> can recommend a working FOSS solution capable for watch Video
> (preferably in HD) ?
>
>> From my searching today, there is no real working solution as yet.
>
> Potential solutions;
>
> 1) Spice - includes video and audio but suffers from screen tearing
> and lag
>
> 2) VNC - does not support audio
>
> 3) XRDP - I was not able to get audio to work, but it might be
> possible?
>
> 4) KVM-VDI - I do not know much of this product.
>
>
>
> http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Desktop_virtualization
> The U.S. Company Desktone, which was acquired by VMware in October
> 2013,[12] [1] has the trademarks on the expressions "desktops as a
> service" and "DaaS" from the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.
>
>
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/QEMU#Remote_Desktop_Protocol
> https://lwn.net/Articles/611212/
> https://www.cb-net.co.uk/linux/debian-8-jessie-enable-rdp-server/
> https://www.hiroom2.com/2016/05/24/debian-8-remote-connect-to-gnome3-desktop-with-vnc-xrdp/#sec-6
> https://www.howtoforge.com/virtualization-with-kvm-on-a-debian-squeeze-server
> http://www.neblogas.lt/2016/07/29/install-ovirt-guest-agent-debian-os-enable-sso/
> https://github.com/Seitanas/kvm-vdi
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjZTVhHk6ZA
> http://myvirtualcloud.net/new-kvm-vdi-open-source-project/
> https://mangolassi.it/topic/9900/has-anyone-played-with-kvm-vdi/32
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Desktop_virtualization#citenote12
>
> --
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PO Box 48, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA

mailto:[hidden email] http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin


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Re: Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) for Linux Desktops

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Steve, in principle, you're right. Firefox over X11 is terrible, so plan B
is called for.

On 7 May 2017 3:37 pm, "steve jenkin via linux" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Have I missed something?
> Wasn’t X-11 invented to solve this precise problem?
>
> [the ‘client’ and ‘server’ model, where the ‘X-11 server’ is the display
> device.]
>
> > On 6 May 2017, at 17:15, George at Clug via linux <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >     Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) is virtualization technology
> > that hosts a desktop operating system on a centralized server in a
> > data center. VDI is a variation on the client-server computing model,
> > sometimes referred to as server-based computing.
> > searchvirtualdesktop.techtarget.com/definition/virtual-desktop-
> infrastructure-VDI
> >
> > Does anyone have experience with VDI for Linux KVM Guest Desktops and
> > can recommend a working FOSS solution capable for watch Video
> > (preferably in HD) ?
> >
> >> From my searching today, there is no real working solution as yet.
> >
> > Potential solutions;
> >
> > 1) Spice - includes video and audio but suffers from screen tearing
> > and lag
> >
> > 2) VNC - does not support audio
> >
> > 3) XRDP - I was not able to get audio to work, but it might be
> > possible?
> >
> > 4) KVM-VDI - I do not know much of this product.
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Desktop_virtualization
> > The U.S. Company Desktone, which was acquired by VMware in October
> > 2013,[12] [1] has the trademarks on the expressions "desktops as a
> > service" and "DaaS" from the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.
> >
> >
> > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/QEMU#Remote_Desktop_Protocol
> > https://lwn.net/Articles/611212/
> > https://www.cb-net.co.uk/linux/debian-8-jessie-enable-rdp-server/
> > https://www.hiroom2.com/2016/05/24/debian-8-remote-connect-
> to-gnome3-desktop-with-vnc-xrdp/#sec-6
> > https://www.howtoforge.com/virtualization-with-kvm-on-a-
> debian-squeeze-server
> > http://www.neblogas.lt/2016/07/29/install-ovirt-guest-
> agent-debian-os-enable-sso/
> > https://github.com/Seitanas/kvm-vdi
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjZTVhHk6ZA
> > http://myvirtualcloud.net/new-kvm-vdi-open-source-project/
> > https://mangolassi.it/topic/9900/has-anyone-played-with-kvm-vdi/32
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Links:
> > ------
> > [1] http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Desktop_virtualization#citenote12
> >
> > --
> > linux mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
>
> --
> Steve Jenkin, IT Systems and Design
> 0412 786 915 (+61 412 786 915)
> PO Box 48, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA
>
> mailto:[hidden email] http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin
>
>
> --
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
>
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Re: Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) for Linux Desktops

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In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list


On 06/05/17 17:15, George at Clug via linux wrote:
>      Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) is virtualization technology
> that hosts a desktop operating system on a centralized server in a
> data center. VDI is a variation on the client-server computing model,
> sometimes referred to as server-based computing.
> searchvirtualdesktop.techtarget.com/definition/virtual-desktop-infrastructure-VDI
>
> Does anyone have experience with VDI for Linux KVM Guest Desktops and
> can recommend a working FOSS solution capable for watch Video
> (preferably in HD) ?


X forwarding for video works well for most, pulse audio provides the
sound (it uses X11 to discover the sound server).

Have you tried using VLC?!? - it'll happily stream video and audio
across networks if you find PulseAudio or SSH too difficult.


>
> From my searching today,


Have you tried this:-
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=linux+virtualisation+remote+sound
?

> there is no real working solution as yet.

My media server is a VirtualBox machine running Debian KDE - not only
can I get sound through any networked device (PulseAudio), but thanks to
KDE Connect I can also control it (VLC playback) through my mobile phone.

>
> Potential solutions;
>
> 1) Spice - includes video and audio but suffers from screen tearing
> and lag
>
> 2) VNC - does not support audio

But works fine with pulseaudio
Sound source: ssh -L4000:localhost:4000 remotehost
Sound sink: socat TCP-LISTEN:4000,fork UNIX-CONNECT:/tmp/pulse-$USER/native

paplay $SomeSoundFile (plays local)
paplay -s localhost:4000 $SomeSoundFile (plays remote)

can also be done with Alsa, or Pulse>Alsa

At a pinch you can always tunnel audio over SSH...

>
> 3) XRDP - I was not able to get audio to work, but it might be
> possible?

Also works with PulseAudio...

>
> 4) KVM-VDI - I do not know much of this product.

Huh? Sound works for me - Linux/Windows (Intel 82801AA AC97 no problems,
ENSONIQ AudioPCI ES1370 occasionally crashes)

Run as root - or become member of audio group

/usr/bin/kvm
#!/bin/sh
QEMU_AUDIO_DRV=alsa /usr/bin/kvm.bin $@


/etc/libvirt/qemu.conf
vnc_allow_host_audio = 1
user = "$LocalUser"
group = "$LocalUser"

restart libvirt

--
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    Q: Why should I start my reply below the quoted text?

    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
    Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

    A: The lost context.
    Q: What makes top-posted replies harder to read than bottom-posted?

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    Q: Should I trim down the quoted part of an email to which I'm reply

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Re: Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) for Linux Desktops

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In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
On 06/05/17 17:15, George at Clug via linux wrote:

>      Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) is virtualization technology
> that hosts a desktop operating system on a centralized server in a
> data center. VDI is a variation on the client-server computing model,
> sometimes referred to as server-based computing.
> searchvirtualdesktop.techtarget.com/definition/virtual-desktop-infrastructure-VDI
>
> Does anyone have experience with VDI for Linux KVM Guest Desktops and
> can recommend a working FOSS solution capable for watch Video
> (preferably in HD) ?
>
>>From my searching today, there is no real working solution as yet.
>
> Potential solutions;
>
> 1) Spice - includes video and audio but suffers from screen tearing
> and lag
>
> 2) VNC - does not support audio
>
> 3) XRDP - I was not able to get audio to work, but it might be
> possible?
>
> 4) KVM-VDI - I do not know much of this product.

Personally, I think VDI is not going anywhere.

The reason why is that computing is actually incredibly cheap.  A <$200
machine on your desktop can run your OS, play games, play video, browse the
web, and run most programs with ease.  With a VDI option you're going to spend
at least $100 on a 'terminal' that can connect to your server via SPICE, VNC
or whatever - and then your server is going to have to be capable.  I see this
as very little difference in the per-seat cost.

Any real figures would be greatly welcomed :-)

The other reason I'm wary is because of lag.  It's easy to dismiss lag as 'not
a problem' on a LAN (obviously VNC etc are much more painful over a long
distance or low bandwidth link), but things like screen tearing, lack of
synchronisation in quick mouse movements, waiting for menus to appear, delays
while typing and so forth will irritate you.  Try running Firefox over a
forwarded X-11 session on your LAN, or using remote VMWare consoles, and see
what I mean.

It's also tempting to have as many people using that VDI server as use a
normal file server, but the load is MUCH more because you're relying on a VDI
server for all the computation and interactivity.  At 4:30 when everyone
decides to finish up their work and log off the server will spike and suddenly
everyone's running slow.  Then you have the question of what happens to people
that get disconnected because the server is running slow...

IMO VDI is a false economy.

Are you simply wanting to watch video?  What about using a Raspberry Pi, the
Kodi distribution, and VLC?  VideoLan is designed to be a client-server
architecture and to stream video from a central console - it's ability to play
virtually ever file under the sun is purely a side-effect.  And the Pi is
surprisingly capable if you use its proprietary video decoder.

Have fun,

Paul

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Re: Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) for Linux Desktops

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    If you missed something, then so did I.  Why is it that X-11 is
not used any more? (or at least I have not seen any one using it).


At Sunday, 07-05-2017 on 15:35 steve jenkin wrote:


Have I missed something?
Wasn’t X-11 invented to solve this precise problem?

[the ‘client’ and ‘server’ model, where the ‘X-11 server’
is the display device.]

> On 6 May 2017, at 17:15, George at Clug via linux
        *  wrote:
>
>     Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) is virtualization
technology
> that hosts a desktop operating system on a centralized server in a
> data center. VDI is a variation on the client-server computing
model,
> sometimes referred to as server-based computing.
>
searchvirtualdesktop.techtarget.com/definition/virtual-desktop-infrastructure-VDI
>
> Does anyone have experience with VDI for Linux KVM Guest Desktops
and

> can recommend a working FOSS solution capable for watch Video
> (preferably in HD) ?
>
>> From my searching today, there is no real working solution as yet.
>
> Potential solutions;
>
> 1) Spice - includes video and audio but suffers from screen tearing
> and lag
>
> 2) VNC - does not support audio
>
> 3) XRDP - I was not able to get audio to work, but it might be
> possible?
>
> 4) KVM-VDI - I do not know much of this product.
>
>
>
> http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Desktop_virtualization
> The U.S. Company Desktone, which was acquired by VMware in October
> 2013,[12] [1] has the trademarks on the expressions "desktops as a
> service" and "DaaS" from the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.
>
>
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/QEMU#Remote_Desktop_Protocol
> https://lwn.net/Articles/611212/
> https://www.cb-net.co.uk/linux/debian-8-jessie-enable-rdp-server/
>
https://www.hiroom2.com/2016/05/24/debian-8-remote-connect-to-gnome3-desktop-with-vnc-xrdp/#sec-6
>
https://www.howtoforge.com/virtualization-with-kvm-on-a-debian-squeeze-server
>
http://www.neblogas.lt/2016/07/29/install-ovirt-guest-agent-debian-os-enable-sso/
--
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0412 786 915 (+61 412 786 915)
PO Box 48, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA

mailto:[hidden email] http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin


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Re: Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) for Linux Desktops

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    Paul, thanks for your comments.

You asked "Are you simply wanting to watch video?" 
Answer: best and simplest bandwidth load test I can come up with.
Cannot play games on a guest Desktop as currently KVM does not have a
virtual video card that supports 3D graphics. Though I understood it
is being worked on.  Standard applications such as word processors,
spreadsheets, and email work fine. Web browsers rendering pages with
advertisements can be  a bit of a drain on resources, causing slow
behaviour.

Your comment "Personally, I think VDI is not going anywhere", I am not
sure if I agree with you, previously I would have, however the
government department where I am currently working is now using VDI
(citrix client installed on a Windows laptop), dual monitors, and
Windows 7 guest.  When doing normal work (word processing, Excel
spreadsheets) I don't even notice I am using a VDI solution. Even when
using a web browser to watch a short youtube video, it is not even
noticeable. When we all watch the same broadcast seminar, we use the
Windows laptop, and not the VDI Windows 7 guest otherwise displayed
colours and windows can get distorted. I can only suggest that the
servers hosting the Windows 7 guests are well provisioned.

I would call this a totally successful VDI solution (as long people
don't all start watching Youtube HD videos, lol).  I don't know how
well VDI compares to the cost of physical desktops (applying updates,
fault maintenance, total cost of VDI solution to total cost of non-VDI
desktop solution, etc). I have not seen any major slowdowns or
disconnects due to the number of people all logging in or shutting
down, etc. Though I have noticed if the VDI servers and/or
authentication servers go down, no one is able to work. Of course if a
traditional file server goes down, then much the same productivity
wise.

Having seen a successful Windows VDI implementation, I am curious if
the same could be achieved with FOSS.  And for my test, Linux
Desktops running on KVM.

George.



At Sunday, 07-05-2017 on 19:13 Paul Wayper via linux wrote:


On 06/05/17 17:15, George at Clug via linux wrote:
>      Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) is virtualization
technology
> that hosts a desktop operating system on a centralized server in a
> data center. VDI is a variation on the client-server computing
model,
> sometimes referred to as server-based computing.
>
searchvirtualdesktop.techtarget.com/definition/virtual-desktop-infrastructure-VDI
>
> Does anyone have experience with VDI for Linux KVM Guest Desktops
and

> can recommend a working FOSS solution capable for watch Video
> (preferably in HD) ?
>
>>From my searching today, there is no real working solution as yet.
>
> Potential solutions;
>
> 1) Spice - includes video and audio but suffers from screen tearing
> and lag
>
> 2) VNC - does not support audio
>
> 3) XRDP - I was not able to get audio to work, but it might be
> possible?
>
> 4) KVM-VDI - I do not know much of this product.

Personally, I think VDI is not going anywhere.

The reason why is that computing is actually incredibly cheap.  A
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On 7 May 2017, at 19:13, Paul Wayper via linux <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Personally, I think VDI is not going anywhere.
>
> The reason why is that computing is actually incredibly cheap.  A <$200
> machine on your desktop can run your OS, play games, play video, browse the
> web, and run most programs with ease.  With a VDI option you're going to spend
> at least $100 on a 'terminal' that can connect to your server via SPICE, VNC
> or whatever - and then your server is going to have to be capable.  I see this
> as very little difference in the per-seat cost.

From the corporate IT perspective, it's not the cost of computing power on the desk that's the issue, it's the cost of support and maintenance. It doesn't matter that a supposed <$200 desktop can do what is required on the individual desktop, it's that in a corporation with 1,000 desktops you will need 10 staff walking the floors to help people with their issues.

With a VDI solution that headcount can be reduced since all support can be done remotely, with the only desktop issues being replacement of hardware. So it's worth spending the equivalent of, say, 5 support staff salaries on the VDI solution to save the cost of 8 support staff salaries.

Then there are the savings in time and money from moving licences to per-user instead of per-seat. There's no sense deploying, say, Adobe Illustrator to 1000 seats if only 50 people are ever going to be using the program, and of those only 30 will ever use it at the same time. Allowing staff to fire up the workstation they want for a specific task means you can limit your licence obligation.

Well, that's the theory anyway.

Doing the same thing with X11 should be possible, if anyone was prepared to package X11 and all the required supporting software in a way that corporate IT departments can cope with.

Alex

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Re: Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) for Linux Desktops

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> On 7 May 2017, at 15:55, David C via linux <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Steve, in principle, you're right. Firefox over X11 is terrible, so plan B is called for.
>
> On 7 May 2017 3:37 pm, "steve jenkin via linux" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Have I missed something?
>> Wasn’t X-11 invented to solve this precise problem?
>>
>> [the ‘client’ and ‘server’ model, where the ‘X-11 server’ is the display
>> device.]

David,

Have you tried a 'lightweight’ browser over the same config / network / systems?
That’d identify where things are going and lead you towards an optimum solution, not a kludge.

If Firefox is the problem, looking to a faster-over-remote browser is a more scalable & maintainable solution than a remote desktop.
Or the problem might be the mismatch in X-11 / OpenGL / GPU driver configs between the client and X-11 server.
Or simply that ‘xrender’ support was removed.

A reddit user reported a significant performance hit going from Firefox 46 to Firefox 47.
Regressing versions to one with xrender support might give you a quick work-around and suggest a fastpath to a permanent solution.

> FF 47 unbearable slow over remote X11
> <https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/4nfmvp/ff_47_unbearable_slow_over_remote_x11/>
> We use XDMCP or x2go to connect to a server (via Gigabit Ethernet) and where scrolling was super smooth on FF46, FF47 is laggy as hell,
> just like Chrome always was.
>  It seems that it doesn't use native X11 rendering anymore
>  but renders the whole webpage as one graphic,
> which then needs to be retransmitted completely to the client.
>  I couldn't find anything in the changelog regarding this.
>> This is because we disabled XRender support.

The (performance) fault you’re talking about was logged in 2005.
It was never fixed.

From the comments, what you’re seeing is a very well known problem with ‘chatty’ protocols like MSFT's RPC's:
        “It works fine locally, but performance crashes over the network”.

> Performance of Firefox over X11 remote display, and equivalently under VNC, is unbelievably/unusably slow
> <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=299727>
>> I tried using xmsgtrace to see what X protocol messages were being sent, but there were several thousand, more than I can easily examine with the knowledge of Firefox that I have.

This piece suggests there’s an ‘xrender’ setting that you can set in Firefox that might improve your performance over the network.
Is this pre v.47? didn’t check.
One comment mentions ‘webgl’ - I didn’t follow that lead.

> Firefox’s graphics performance on X11
> <http://www.hackermusings.com/2012/05/firefoxs-graphics-performance-on-x11/>
>> go to about:config and set “gfx.xrender.enabled” to “false”.

Here are two threads to read, with explicit suggestions of things to try.
[web-proxy + local F’fox, VPN, SSH forwarding, FreeNX, tweak X-11 settings, lower screen resolution/colours]

how to make fast SSH X11 forwarding (specifically, making firefox context menu show up quickly)
<https://serverfault.com/questions/63871/how-to-make-fast-ssh-x11-forwarding-specifically-making-firefox-context-menu-s>
> Remote Firefox over SSH is pretty usable until you try a right click to make context menu show up. It takes about 5 seconds for the context menu to appear. It seems it takes many round trips.
>
> ssh -c blowfish-cbc -C -Y host

and

> Give FreeNX a try.
[Now ‘nomachine’, <https://www.nomachine.com> ]

Fastest browser to run over a forwarded X11 session
<https://superuser.com/questions/403594/fastest-browser-to-run-over-a-forwarded-x11-session>
> There are a few browsers that run a bit (to much) better over X11 forwarding.
> Midori is a lightweight, tabbed browser that should run well.
> Xlinks2 should work over X11 forwarding pretty well as well.
> uzbl and surf are both browsers I've used that should work well over X11 because they're very minimal.

> Even if you use a browser that is light-weight on CPU and RAM on the server, in this case the limiting factor will undeniably [1] be the network. What you want to avoid is mostly unnecessary screen rendering.
> • Turn off "smooth scrolling" and such features. Use PgUp/PgDn instead of continuously scrolling if you have the choice (a single screen update is much faster than 30 just to see a full page).
> • Keep a small browsing window (but not so small so you have to scroll a lot more as per previous point).
> • Block animated material (animated GIFs are not that common nowadays, so blocking flash will probably do fine).
> • Consider using VNC, which will compress the image transfer in a clever way. This gives me a much snappier experience when forced to use GUI over slow connections.
> • Don't underestimate text-based browsers if there is something you quickly need to do on the server.
> • Proxy and/or port tunneling through SSH avoid/s the problem completely. You just want to transfer the information, it is unnecessary to transfer the complete presentation layer.
>
> [1]: Unless you have a very fast connection (~100Mbps in my experience); then any browser will probably do without being more annoying than using the browser locally. I am blessed with this in my remote needs.
>
>> This answer is actually much better than the chosen answer.
>> The complexity of the browser has nothing to do with how fast it runs over X11 forwarding,
>> only how often it needs to send screen update information,
>> which depends on configuration and usage.
>> Additionally, you can lower the resolution or number of colors which will dramatically increase responsiveness.
>>  Having said this, uzbl is a good choice because it uses key bindings natively although most browsers can be configured in the same way using plugins. This will help reduce lag further.

HTH
steve

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Re: Virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) for Linux Desktops

Samba - linux mailing list
Some of the X toolkits are very chatty, requiring many roundtrips between
the X server & the program. NX, VNC and RDP obviate that. I tend to use
xrdp, as Windows boxes come with a client already installed (mstsc).
Wayland was/is supposed to have some sort of RDP functionality, but the
last time I looked, it was pending. Tweak your desktop to have a flat
colour background, and go with simple window decorations in your window
manager themes. It's no co-incidence that recent MS desktops have adapted
the flat look.

I've been a long time X user, 1st X terminal I saw was in 1988, and I was
the XFree86 project's 1st beta tester. It was a decent set of abstractions
for the hardware of its time, but the problem space has changed since then.
Sometimes it's just simpler and easier to blast pixmaps about.

On 9 May 2017 at 13:49, steve jenkin via linux <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
> > On 7 May 2017, at 15:55, David C via linux <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Steve, in principle, you're right. Firefox over X11 is terrible, so plan
> B is called for.
> >
> > On 7 May 2017 3:37 pm, "steve jenkin via linux" <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Have I missed something?
> >> Wasn’t X-11 invented to solve this precise problem?
> >>
> >> [the ‘client’ and ‘server’ model, where the ‘X-11 server’ is the display
> >> device.]
>
> David,
>
> Have you tried a 'lightweight’ browser over the same config / network /
> systems?
> That’d identify where things are going and lead you towards an optimum
> solution, not a kludge.
>
> If Firefox is the problem, looking to a faster-over-remote browser is a
> more scalable & maintainable solution than a remote desktop.
> Or the problem might be the mismatch in X-11 / OpenGL / GPU driver configs
> between the client and X-11 server.
> Or simply that ‘xrender’ support was removed.
>
> A reddit user reported a significant performance hit going from Firefox 46
> to Firefox 47.
> Regressing versions to one with xrender support might give you a quick
> work-around and suggest a fastpath to a permanent solution.
>
> > FF 47 unbearable slow over remote X11
> > <https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/4nfmvp/ff_47_
> unbearable_slow_over_remote_x11/>
> > We use XDMCP or x2go to connect to a server (via Gigabit Ethernet) and
> where scrolling was super smooth on FF46, FF47 is laggy as hell,
> > just like Chrome always was.
> >  It seems that it doesn't use native X11 rendering anymore
> >  but renders the whole webpage as one graphic,
> > which then needs to be retransmitted completely to the client.
> >  I couldn't find anything in the changelog regarding this.
> >> This is because we disabled XRender support.
>
> The (performance) fault you’re talking about was logged in 2005.
> It was never fixed.
>
> From the comments, what you’re seeing is a very well known problem with
> ‘chatty’ protocols like MSFT's RPC's:
>         “It works fine locally, but performance crashes over the network”.
>
> > Performance of Firefox over X11 remote display, and equivalently under
> VNC, is unbelievably/unusably slow
> > <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=299727>
> >> I tried using xmsgtrace to see what X protocol messages were being
> sent, but there were several thousand, more than I can easily examine with
> the knowledge of Firefox that I have.
>
> This piece suggests there’s an ‘xrender’ setting that you can set in
> Firefox that might improve your performance over the network.
> Is this pre v.47? didn’t check.
> One comment mentions ‘webgl’ - I didn’t follow that lead.
>
> > Firefox’s graphics performance on X11
> > <http://www.hackermusings.com/2012/05/firefoxs-graphics-
> performance-on-x11/>
> >> go to about:config and set “gfx.xrender.enabled” to “false”.
>
> Here are two threads to read, with explicit suggestions of things to try.
> [web-proxy + local F’fox, VPN, SSH forwarding, FreeNX, tweak X-11
> settings, lower screen resolution/colours]
>
> how to make fast SSH X11 forwarding (specifically, making firefox context
> menu show up quickly)
> <https://serverfault.com/questions/63871/how-to-make-
> fast-ssh-x11-forwarding-specifically-making-firefox-context-menu-s>
> > Remote Firefox over SSH is pretty usable until you try a right click to
> make context menu show up. It takes about 5 seconds for the context menu to
> appear. It seems it takes many round trips.
> >
> > ssh -c blowfish-cbc -C -Y host
>
> and
>
> > Give FreeNX a try.
> [Now ‘nomachine’, <https://www.nomachine.com> ]
>
> Fastest browser to run over a forwarded X11 session
> <https://superuser.com/questions/403594/fastest-browser-to-run-over-a-
> forwarded-x11-session>
> > There are a few browsers that run a bit (to much) better over X11
> forwarding.
> > Midori is a lightweight, tabbed browser that should run well.
> > Xlinks2 should work over X11 forwarding pretty well as well.
> > uzbl and surf are both browsers I've used that should work well over X11
> because they're very minimal.
>
> > Even if you use a browser that is light-weight on CPU and RAM on the
> server, in this case the limiting factor will undeniably [1] be the
> network. What you want to avoid is mostly unnecessary screen rendering.
> >       • Turn off "smooth scrolling" and such features. Use PgUp/PgDn
> instead of continuously scrolling if you have the choice (a single screen
> update is much faster than 30 just to see a full page).
> >       • Keep a small browsing window (but not so small so you have to
> scroll a lot more as per previous point).
> >       • Block animated material (animated GIFs are not that common
> nowadays, so blocking flash will probably do fine).
> >       • Consider using VNC, which will compress the image transfer in a
> clever way. This gives me a much snappier experience when forced to use GUI
> over slow connections.
> >       • Don't underestimate text-based browsers if there is something
> you quickly need to do on the server.
> >       • Proxy and/or port tunneling through SSH avoid/s the problem
> completely. You just want to transfer the information, it is unnecessary to
> transfer the complete presentation layer.
> >
> > [1]: Unless you have a very fast connection (~100Mbps in my experience);
> then any browser will probably do without being more annoying than using
> the browser locally. I am blessed with this in my remote needs.
> >
> >> This answer is actually much better than the chosen answer.
> >> The complexity of the browser has nothing to do with how fast it runs
> over X11 forwarding,
> >> only how often it needs to send screen update information,
> >> which depends on configuration and usage.
> >> Additionally, you can lower the resolution or number of colors which
> will dramatically increase responsiveness.
> >>  Having said this, uzbl is a good choice because it uses key bindings
> natively although most browsers can be configured in the same way using
> plugins. This will help reduce lag further.
>
> HTH
> steve
>
> --
> Steve Jenkin, IT Systems and Design
> 0412 786 915 (+61 412 786 915)
> PO Box 48, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA
>
> mailto:[hidden email] http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin
>
>
> --
> linux mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
>



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