[OT] C-Sides on tonight

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[OT] C-Sides on tonight

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http://www.bsidesau.com.au/csides.html

Talks on:
  - "The CSI Effect: How does Digital Forensics in the real world
     compare to what you see on TV?" - by a real live Digital
     Forensics investigator with the AFP
  - "L2 Attacks against virtual devices" - covering "L2 ARP attacks,
     VLAN hopping and STP" on virtualised network devices as found
     in modern hypervisors (including VMWare, which is Linux - so
     got the Linux reference in...).

Talks are likely to be quite technical...

In CSIT N101, starting at 6pm.

cheers,

Bob Edwards.

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Re: [OT] C-Sides on tonight

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Hi Bob,

On 13 October 2017 at 10:00, Bob Edwards via linux <[hidden email]>
wrote:
>
> [...] (including VMWare, which is Linux - so
>     got the Linux reference in...).

You sure about that? ;-)   There used to be a Linux kernel in there
somewhere but it's long gone.  However, most/all of the various virtual
appliances (VMs) shipped by VMware are based on Linux (vCenter, NSX
Manager, NSX controllers, NSX edges, etc.)

I haven't made it along to a CSides yet but I've been meaning to. Tonight
might be the night, $deity willing.

Cheers,
Dale
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Re: [OT] C-Sides on tonight

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On 13/10/17 10:31, Dale Shaw wrote:

> Hi Bob,
>
> On 13 October 2017 at 10:00, Bob Edwards via linux
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> [...] (including VMWare, which is Linux - so
>>     got the Linux reference in...).
>
> You sure about that? ;-)   There used to be a Linux kernel in there
> somewhere but it's long gone.  However, most/all of the various virtual
> appliances (VMs) shipped by VMware are based on Linux (vCenter, NSX
> Manager, NSX controllers, NSX edges, etc.)

Hi Dale,

Well, now that you ask, I am not so sure that ESXi is running a Linux
kernel... When I ssh in, I get a busybox shell and there are many
Linuxy traits, but nothing that actually says Linux, so maybe not...

I think that the older VMWare ESX system did use a Linux kernel.

So, thanks of the correction on that...

cheers,

Bob Edwards.

>
> I haven't made it along to a CSides yet but I've been meaning to.
> Tonight might be the night, $deity willing.
>
> Cheers,
> Dale
>


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Re: [OT] C-Sides on tonight

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In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017, at 10:31, Dale Shaw via linux wrote:

> Hi Bob,
>
> On 13 October 2017 at 10:00, Bob Edwards via linux
> <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > [...] (including VMWare, which is Linux - so
> >     got the Linux reference in...).
>
> You sure about that? ;-)   There used to be a Linux kernel in there
> somewhere but it's long gone.  However, most/all of the various virtual
> appliances (VMs) shipped by VMware are based on Linux (vCenter, NSX
> Manager, NSX controllers, NSX edges, etc.)
>

Oh, this is an interesting one...

VMWare no-longer out-right uses the Linux kernel, but rather their own
proprietary kernel (vmkernel) in ESXi.

However, vmkernel has a core module, called vmklinux. This appears to be
modified Linux kernel code[1] which provides support for drivers like
SCSI, networking and USB. The core vmkernel component contains things
like the scheduler and support for other drivers.

In 2015, kernel developer Hellwig brought a case (sponsored by the
Software Freedom Conservancy) against VMWare[2]. He claimed that as the
module was running together as a single program, not through an API, it
means vmkernel and vmklinux are combined work under copyright law.
Therefore vmkernel becomes subject to the GPL.

VMWare seems to confirm that vmklinux is modified Linux code, but argues
that it is not a derived work because it is a kernel module and separate
from their vmkernel code which is a separate work which contains no
Linux code.[3]

Hellwig's case was dismissed[3] because it failed to meet satisfy German
evidence rules. That is, he failed to show _exactly which lines of code
in vmklinux violated his copyright_. Because of this, the question of
the GPL was never addressed. An appeal is expected.[4]

In the mean time, VMWare is removing vmklinux from their products[5]....

So yes, it seems that VMWare does still run a Linux kernel, just that's
bundled up as a module and loaded into their proprietary vmkernel (and
yes, that almost certainly violates the GPL).

They do also use busybox, I think they did now comply with the GPL there
after action from Software Freedom Conservancy.

-c

[1]
https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vmware-code-similarity.html
[2] https://sfconservancy.org/linux-compliance/vmware-lawsuit-faq.html
[3] http://bombadil.infradead.org/~hch/vmware/Judgment_2016-07-08.pdf
[4] http://bombadil.infradead.org/~hch/vmware/2016-08-09.html
[5]
https://blogs.vmware.com/vsphere/2017/08/vmware-plans-deprecate-vmklinux-apis-associated-driver-ecosystem.html

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Re: [OT] C-Sides on tonight

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Chris Smart via linux <[hidden email]> writes:

> On Fri, 13 Oct 2017, at 10:31, Dale Shaw via linux wrote:
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> On 13 October 2017 at 10:00, Bob Edwards via linux
>> <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > [...] (including VMWare, which is Linux - so
>> >     got the Linux reference in...).
>>
>> You sure about that? ;-)   There used to be a Linux kernel in there
>> somewhere but it's long gone.  However, most/all of the various virtual
>> appliances (VMs) shipped by VMware are based on Linux (vCenter, NSX
>> Manager, NSX controllers, NSX edges, etc.)
>>
>
> Oh, this is an interesting one...

Is it ever :)

> VMWare no-longer out-right uses the Linux kernel, but rather their own
> proprietary kernel (vmkernel) in ESXi.
>
> However, vmkernel has a core module, called vmklinux. This appears to be
> modified Linux kernel code[1] which provides support for drivers like
> SCSI, networking and USB. The core vmkernel component contains things
> like the scheduler and support for other drivers.
>
> In 2015, kernel developer Hellwig brought a case (sponsored by the
> Software Freedom Conservancy) against VMWare[2]. He claimed that as the
> module was running together as a single program, not through an API, it
> means vmkernel and vmklinux are combined work under copyright law.
> Therefore vmkernel becomes subject to the GPL.
>
> VMWare seems to confirm that vmklinux is modified Linux code, but argues
> that it is not a derived work because it is a kernel module and separate
> from their vmkernel code which is a separate work which contains no
> Linux code.[3]
>
> Hellwig's case was dismissed[3] because it failed to meet satisfy German
> evidence rules. That is, he failed to show _exactly which lines of code
> in vmklinux violated his copyright_. Because of this, the question of
> the GPL was never addressed. An appeal is expected.[4]
>
> In the mean time, VMWare is removing vmklinux from their products[5]....

... and has recently joined the Linux Foundation[6] and employed some
high-profile kernel personalities[7][8].

cheers

[6]: https://www.linuxfoundation.org/press-release/vmware-becomes-linux-foundation-gold-member-pledging-increased-support-for-open-source-development/
[7]: https://twitter.com/srostedt/status/815980194691354625
[8]: https://www.cio.com/article/3095843/open-source-tools/vmware-today-has-a-strong-investment-in-open-source-dirk-hohndel.html

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Re: [OT] C-Sides on tonight

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On Fri, 13 Oct 2017, at 14:17, Michael Ellerman wrote:

> ... and has recently employed some
> high-profile kernel personalities.
>

Oh! You're moving? ;-)

-c

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Re: [OT] C-Sides on tonight

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Chris Smart <[hidden email]> writes:

> On Fri, 13 Oct 2017, at 14:17, Michael Ellerman wrote:
>
>> ... and has recently employed some
>> high-profile kernel personalities.
>>
>
> Oh! You're moving? ;-)

Haha, well trolled sir :)

cheers

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