Future of CLUG main meetings

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
30 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
So we had a small CLUG main meeting last night, as to be expected when
there is no topic/speaker announced. We had a bit of a Q&A session.

One question that came up, and has come up previously, is how do we
best support "beginners".

Because CLUG was born more by university types (Tridge etc.) involved
in doing daily open-source development, and not so much by pure
"users", it has always struggled to identify strongly as either a
technically-oriented group or a more traditional user group. It has,
over the years, become somewhat bi-modal in this regard.

My observation is that when we have solid technical talks announced,
a lot more people attend the meetings, so there is a definite appetite
in the local community for that level of talks.

On the other hand, this leaves folk who are still finding their way
somewhat out in the dark.

It has been proposed in the past that we alternate between technical
talks and non-technical talks. My problem is that, whereas everyone
else in CLUG gets to choose if they want to come along or not based
on their interest in the talks, I kinda have to be there each month
to open up etc. I don't mind doing it when people are actually going
to come along, but I also have other priorities in my life.

Anyway, next month, George and I propose to have a bit of a showcase
of Free and Open Source games, which we in the FOSS community should
be celebrating. I'll demo and open up discussion on minetest
(http://www.minetest.net/#about) and others can put up their hand to
demo/discuss a FOSS game or three of their choice.

Now is the time to come forward and propose future talks for CLUG
main meetings, such as a beginners workshop etc., or, I suggest, we
may need to start discussing shutting it all down.

cheers,

Bob Edwards.

--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 10:27:45AM +1000, Bob Edwards via linux wrote:

> So we had a small CLUG main meeting last night, as to be expected when
> there is no topic/speaker announced. We had a bit of a Q&A session.
>
> One question that came up, and has come up previously, is how do we
> best support "beginners".
>
> Because CLUG was born more by university types (Tridge etc.) involved
> in doing daily open-source development, and not so much by pure
> "users", it has always struggled to identify strongly as either a
> technically-oriented group or a more traditional user group. It has,
> over the years, become somewhat bi-modal in this regard.
>
> My observation is that when we have solid technical talks announced,
> a lot more people attend the meetings, so there is a definite appetite
> in the local community for that level of talks.
>
> On the other hand, this leaves folk who are still finding their way
> somewhat out in the dark.
>
> It has been proposed in the past that we alternate between technical
> talks and non-technical talks. My problem is that, whereas everyone
> else in CLUG gets to choose if they want to come along or not based
> on their interest in the talks, I kinda have to be there each month
> to open up etc. I don't mind doing it when people are actually going
> to come along, but I also have other priorities in my life.
>
> Anyway, next month, George and I propose to have a bit of a showcase
> of Free and Open Source games, which we in the FOSS community should
> be celebrating. I'll demo and open up discussion on minetest
> (http://www.minetest.net/#about) and others can put up their hand to
> demo/discuss a FOSS game or three of their choice.
>
> Now is the time to come forward and propose future talks for CLUG
> main meetings, such as a beginners workshop etc., or, I suggest, we
> may need to start discussing shutting it all down.

It is a problem the last few years there have been some incredible talks
(Michael Carden and the software radio stuff) however they have been rare.

I think some of the problem is there are a lot of other locaitons
interesting technical stuff happens, such as the Friday evening talk you have
been going to often, also programming has special talk groups in various
languages (the Python Group in Canberra seems fairly active), the Make Hack
Void hacker space. Originally all of this would have been happening with
people who were regular part of a group like CLUG.

Back in the day (in the 90s and early 2000's Linux took a bit more effort to
be able to use for the beginner (and for everyone I guess), so I guess many
people getting into Linux came along to CLUG and then were keen to learn so
they could use it.

Beginner users, if they are inclined to use Linux today can use it woithout
so much know how.

Technical users can find interesting talks in other locations and do not
feel the direct tie to Linux/Open Source this group has had for so long.

I agree with the fact I wil only really be keen to attend a technical talk
myself which is part of the problem, I in theory should have been tracking
them down for the group each month and have not had the contact sor interest
to do so recently (I do not do much stuff with interesting technical people
in the Linux and Open Source world now days)

Maybe as the list already exists and has continual use and an audience CLUG
could become more intermittant. If someone comes along and wants to present
something they approcah Bob a month or two out and ask if a CLUG meeting can
happen to present at, then an email can go out and everyone here be made
aware there will be something worth going to happening.

So it could mean there are only 3 CLUG sessions a year however tthe sesisons
that happen wil be interesting and worth rocking up to.

        See You
            Steve

--
Steven Hanley [hidden email] http://svana.org/sjh/diary
they keep pounding their fists on reality
hoping it will break
   Lost Woman Song - Ani Difranco - Ani

--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
Steve beat me to it. I was going to suggest that rather than being a
scheduled monthly meeting, CLUG could be wound back to being a thing that
only happens when there is a definite talk proposed.

+1 to that idea.


--
MC
--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
Hi Bob et Al,

Decades ago I used to work as a Sun Unix SV4 administrator but then I got into protocols for the "new" internet and then finally, before retirement, developing ISO standards to electronically exchange data. However, I have lost a lot of knowledge about Unix/Linux. I've even lost my "Unix in a nutshell" O'Rielly book (I would be grateful if anyone has a spare. It's amazing how quickly one forgets a simple command) so I don't consider myself a power user and don't understand the high tech discussions.

However, I feel much more comfortable using Linux on my home computer mainly because I don't like Micro$oft' s money making intentions, security and privacy issues and how it just seems to treat me like an idiot. Hence a simple Linux OS like Ubuntu suits me fine. I can write emails, manage my photos, rip my music CDs, securely surf the Web using TOR, write documents and other general things, all for free and without the privacy issues of Micro$oft and Android. But I find things like setting up automatic backup systems via WiFi too difficult. Sometimes, I do something which messes up my system and I need help.

The CLUG community has been very helpful to me. I've relied on it when I bugger up something and I am very grateful for that help. I've even been given help on off topic issues which I am again, very grateful.

When I see an email containing words like "or, I suggest, we may need to start discussing shutting it all down." I start to panic. Who's going to help me when I mess up? Will I have to convert to Micro$oft or even worse, the privacy eradicating, data slurping, Android OS? Maybe it's just the Tuesday night talks being considered for shutting down.

I admit I've only been to two or three of these meetings. They clash with my son's piano lessons and karate. Those that I have been to are low tech such as, how to install Ubuntu and what the new ARM looks like. Yet those meetings were very useful.

In summary, please, please, please do not shut down the CLUG and I usually can't attend the Tuesday meetings.

John.

On 23 June 2017 10:27:45 AM AEST, Bob Edwards via linux <[hidden email]> wrote:

>So we had a small CLUG main meeting last night, as to be expected when
>there is no topic/speaker announced. We had a bit of a Q&A session.
>
>One question that came up, and has come up previously, is how do we
>best support "beginners".
>
>Because CLUG was born more by university types (Tridge etc.) involved
>in doing daily open-source development, and not so much by pure
>"users", it has always struggled to identify strongly as either a
>technically-oriented group or a more traditional user group. It has,
>over the years, become somewhat bi-modal in this regard.
>
>My observation is that when we have solid technical talks announced,
>a lot more people attend the meetings, so there is a definite appetite
>in the local community for that level of talks.
>
>On the other hand, this leaves folk who are still finding their way
>somewhat out in the dark.
>
>It has been proposed in the past that we alternate between technical
>talks and non-technical talks. My problem is that, whereas everyone
>else in CLUG gets to choose if they want to come along or not based
>on their interest in the talks, I kinda have to be there each month
>to open up etc. I don't mind doing it when people are actually going
>to come along, but I also have other priorities in my life.
>
>Anyway, next month, George and I propose to have a bit of a showcase
>of Free and Open Source games, which we in the FOSS community should
>be celebrating. I'll demo and open up discussion on minetest
>(http://www.minetest.net/#about) and others can put up their hand to
>demo/discuss a FOSS game or three of their choice.
>
>Now is the time to come forward and propose future talks for CLUG
>main meetings, such as a beginners workshop etc., or, I suggest, we
>may need to start discussing shutting it all down.
>
>cheers,
>
>Bob Edwards.
>
>--
>linux mailing list
>[hidden email]
>https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux

--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
Hiya,

I think the fact CLUG has remained monthly so long is a credit to the
tenacity of some of the long term proponents like Bob, Steve, Paul, Eyal
and the broader membership for showing up :)

I note that here in Melbourne with roughly x10 the population, LUV are
getting attendances in the 20-40 range, so the fact that a good turnout
has been maintained among the smaller population of Canberra is impressive.

My take would be, as suggested, move to more of an on demand model - if
there's a good talk to be had run with it, if not have the night off.

Cheers,
Hugh


--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
On 23/06/17 11:24, [hidden email] wrote:
> Hi Bob et Al,
...
> When I see an email containing words like "or, I suggest, we may need to start discussing shutting it all down." I start to panic. Who's going to help me when I mess up? Will I have to convert to Micro$oft or even worse, the privacy eradicating, data slurping, Android OS? Maybe it's just the Tuesday night talks being considered for shutting down.
>

Hi John,

I may have been being somewhat provokative with "shutting it all down".
I was, indeed, referring to the main meetings, not the mailing list.
Sorry for any panic induced...

btw. the main meetings are on Thursday, not Tuesday, nights...

cheers,

Bob Edwards.




--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 10:53:05AM +1000, Steven Hanley via linux wrote:

> Maybe as the list already exists and has continual use and an audience CLUG
> could become more intermittant. If someone comes along and wants to present
> something they approcah Bob a month or two out and ask if a CLUG meeting can
> happen to present at, then an email can go out and everyone here be made
> aware there will be something worth going to happening.
>
> So it could mean there are only 3 CLUG sessions a year however tthe sesisons
> that happen wil be interesting and worth rocking up to.

+1 Yup lets do that.

Tony.

--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux

signature.asc (499 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
On Fri, 23 Jun 2017, at 11:41, Hugh Blemings via linux wrote:

> Hiya,
>
> I think the fact CLUG has remained monthly so long is a credit to the
> tenacity of some of the long term proponents like Bob, Steve, Paul, Eyal
> and the broader membership for showing up :)
>
> I note that here in Melbourne with roughly x10 the population, LUV are
> getting attendances in the 20-40 range, so the fact that a good turnout
> has been maintained among the smaller population of Canberra is
> impressive.
>
> My take would be, as suggested, move to more of an on demand model - if
> there's a good talk to be had run with it, if not have the night off.
>

I agree.

Thanks to Bob for all his dedication over the (many) years.

We've struggled for the last few years to find any talks at all,
although when we do find something technical it's been better attended.
Most of the time though, arranging the meeting has been a last minute
rush and most people already have plans.

This is a combination of things, I'm sure. Linux is easier to use.
Online communities are bigger and flashier. Many of us use Linux as part
of our day job. There's not as much new groundbreaking techy stuff
happening that we're involved in. Many founders have moved on. Younger
members from a decade ago are married with kids now and are more time
poor (like me).

The best bit of CLUG for me lately has actually been BeerSIG, and I'm
still keen to catch up over a beer and attend CLUG when we have a topic
well prepared in advance.

Otherwise, I'll probably be enjoying spending more time with my family.

-c

--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
Thanks, Bob:

> Anyway, next month, George and I propose to have a bit of a showcase
> of Free and Open Source games, which we in the FOSS community should
> be celebrating.

I looked up the CLUG welcome page.
http://clug.org.au/
Which referred for "details for the next monthly meeting" to the
following page.
http://clug.andrew.net.au/
This said "The next CLUG meeting is July 22nd", a Saturday.
Contradicting that welcome page, which said that meetings are "on the
4th Thursday of every month".

> Now is the time to come forward and propose future talks for CLUG
> main meetings, such as a beginners workshop etc., or, I suggest, we
> may need to start discussing shutting it all down.

Are you retiring out of frustration?

--
www.netspeed.com.au/bryan/


--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
Thanks for the manifesto, Bob.

> I may have been being somewhat provokative with "shutting it all down".
> I was, indeed, referring to the main meetings, not the mailing list.

Rename your private lodge "Canberra Linux Professionals' Guild".
Notifying us riffraff that we are not welcome therein!

--
www.netspeed.com.au/bryan/


--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 03:13:19PM +1000, Bryan Kilgallin (iiNet) via linux wrote:
 
> I looked up the CLUG welcome page.
> http://clug.org.au/
> Which referred for "details for the next monthly meeting" to the following
> page.
> http://clug.andrew.net.au/
> This said "The next CLUG meeting is July 22nd", a Saturday. Contradicting
> that welcome page, which said that meetings are "on the 4th Thursday of
> every month".

I have removed the link to the clearly outdated information.

Yours Tony.

--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux

signature.asc (499 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
Thanks, Bob:

> Anyway, next month, George and I propose to have a bit of a showcase
> of Free and Open Source games, which we in the FOSS community should
> be celebrating. I'll demo and open up discussion on minetest
> (http://www.minetest.net/#about) and others can put up their hand to
> demo/discuss a FOSS game or three of their choice.

I can demo DreamChess.

{DreamChess is an open source chess game. Our primary target platforms
are Windows, Mac OS X and Linux. DreamChess features 3D OpenGL graphics
and provides various chess board sets, ranging from classic wooden to
flat figurines. A moderately strong chess engine is included: Dreamer.}

http://dreamchess.org/

--
www.netspeed.com.au/bryan/


--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
Thanks, Steven:

> I think some of the problem is there are a lot of other locaitons
> interesting technical stuff happens, such as the Friday evening talk you have
> been going to often, also programming has special talk groups in various
> languages (the Python Group in Canberra seems fairly active), the Make Hack
> Void hacker space.
I like computers AND guns. So I'm a member of a club about guns NOT
computers. Yet another club retrospectively decreed permission for
computers NOT guns. So I'm in a third club for computers NOT guns.

--
www.netspeed.com.au/bryan/


--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
I agree, John:

> However, I feel much more comfortable using Linux on my home computer mainly because I don't like Micro$oft' s money making intentions, security and privacy issues and how it just seems to treat me like an idiot. Hence a simple Linux OS like Ubuntu suits me fine.

Same here.

> Those that I have been to are low tech such as, how to install Ubuntu and what the new ARM looks like.

Yeah.

> In summary, please, please, please do not shut down the CLUG and I usually can't attend the Tuesday meetings.

I understand Bob's wish to retire. But I suggest at least a wake!

--
www.netspeed.com.au/bryan/


--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
Good point, Hugh:

> I note that here in Melbourne with roughly x10 the population, LUV are
> getting attendances in the 20-40 range, so the fact that a good
> turnout has been maintained among the smaller population of Canberra
> is impressive.

Melbourne is eleven times as populous as Canberra.
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Melbourne+population+divided+by+Canberra+population

So were CLUG meetings attended as you report LUV, then we would average
attendance of three!

--
www.netspeed.com.au/bryan/


--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
Good idea, Chris:

{We've struggled for the last few years to find any talks at all,
although when we do find something technical it's been better attended.}

Yesterday's robust debate was stirring!

{The best bit of CLUG for me lately has actually been BeerSIG, and I'm
still keen to catch up over a beer and attend CLUG when we have a topic
well prepared in advance.}

Let's find a venue with hospitality and seminar facilities!
--
www.netspeed.com.au/bryan/

--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 09:32:28PM +1000, Bryan Kilgallin (iiNet) via linux wrote:
> Let's find a venue with hospitality and seminar facilities!

If you are able to and willing to find and organise a venue as good as the
one we have been able to use that is available for CLUG then organise
meetings around it please go ahead. CLUG has been incredibly fortunate to
have access to a venue with suport from the College at ANU and the CLUG
staff members or students making the venue available for a long time.

I like Chris' idea of BeerSIG still happening as a geek catch up unrelated
to trying to organise an interesting presentation.

        See You
            Steve

--
Steven Hanley [hidden email] http://svana.org/sjh/diary
it's about freedom, it's about faking
there's an art to the laughter, there's a science
and there's a lot of love and compliance
   Freakshow - To The Teeth - Ani

--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
Not quite, Steven:


> If you are able to and willing to find and organise a venue as good as the
> one we have been able to use that is available for CLUG then organise
> meetings around it please go ahead.

Bob has given a month's notice to vacate that venue for regular meetings.

--
www.netspeed.com.au/bryan/


--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
Then, Mike:

{I was going to suggest that rather than being a

scheduled monthly meeting, CLUG could be wound back to being a thing that
only happens when there is a definite talk proposed.}

Clug's welcome page needs amending. As from 28 July, this will no longer be the case!

{The Canberra Linux Users Group (CLUG) meets on the 4th Thursday of every
month in room N101, on the ground floor of the Computer Science and
Information Technology building at the Australian National University.}

http://clug.org.au/

--
www.netspeed.com.au/bryan/


--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Future of CLUG main meetings

Samba - linux mailing list
In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
On 23 June 2017 at 21:44, Steven Hanley via linux <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 09:32:28PM +1000, Bryan Kilgallin (iiNet) via
> linux wrote:
> > Let's find a venue with hospitality and seminar facilities!
>
> If you are able to and willing to find and organise a venue as good as the
> one we have been able to use that is available for CLUG then organise
> meetings around it please go ahead. CLUG has been incredibly fortunate to
> have access to a venue with suport from the College at ANU and the CLUG
> staff members or students making the venue available for a long time.
>
> I like Chris' idea of BeerSIG still happening as a geek catch up unrelated
> to trying to organise an interesting presentation.


+1 for keeping the BeerSIG going, at least.


Simon
--
linux mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
12