Debian 9 "Stretch" released, June 17th, 2017

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Debian 9 "Stretch" released, June 17th, 2017

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     Great news, Debian Stretch has now officially been released !

https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20170617

This release includes numerous updated software packages, such as:
Xen Hypervisor

Did I miss something? I understood Xen was proprietary?  So I am 4
years behind? Does Citrix own Xen, or is it owned by the Linux
Community and Citrix now only supports it?

http://events.linuxfoundation.org/sites/events/files/xpus13_pavlicek.pdf
Xen Hypervisor: The Crux of the Xen Project
• Type 1 Hypervisor: Does not run in the kernel
• VMs compete with other VMs for resources, not with processes
• Architecture emphasizes security
• Uses toolstacks for Control Domain to talk to Hypervisor
• Default is XL (improved on XM)
• Libvirt /VIRSH option
• No native GUI

• Started as “XenEnterprise”, a product of XenSource Inc.
– First released in 2006
– Initially a proprietary product built on top of the open - source
Xen hypervisor
• Evolved into XenServer, a product of Citrix, Now up to version 6.2
(released June 2013)
• Became an open source project in 2013

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xen
The University of Cambridge Computer Laboratory developed the first
versions of Xen. The Xen Project community develops and maintains Xen
Project as free and open-source software, subject to the requirements
of the GNU General Public License (GPL), version 2. Xen Project is
currently available for the IA-32, x86-64 and ARM instruction sets.




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Re: Debian 9 "Stretch" released, June 17th, 2017

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On 18/06/17 16:00, George at Clug via linux wrote:
>      Great news, Debian Stretch has now officially been released !
>
> https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20170617

All good things come to those who wait! (and wait and wait...) (OK,
I am not, yet, a Debian developer, so I shouldn't be so negative...
Good work Debian developers!!!).

>
> This release includes numerous updated software packages, such as:
> Xen Hypervisor
>
> Did I miss something? I understood Xen was proprietary?  So I am 4
> years behind? Does Citrix own Xen, or is it owned by the Linux
> Community and Citrix now only supports it?

I always understood Xen to be FOSS. And I think it has been supported
in Debian since 4.0 (Etch) (according to Wikipedia, anyway).

cheers,

Bob Edwards.

>
> http://events.linuxfoundation.org/sites/events/files/xpus13_pavlicek.pdf
> Xen Hypervisor: The Crux of the Xen Project
> • Type 1 Hypervisor: Does not run in the kernel
> • VMs compete with other VMs for resources, not with processes
> • Architecture emphasizes security
> • Uses toolstacks for Control Domain to talk to Hypervisor
> • Default is XL (improved on XM)
> • Libvirt /VIRSH option
> • No native GUI
>
> • Started as “XenEnterprise”, a product of XenSource Inc.
> – First released in 2006
> – Initially a proprietary product built on top of the open - source
> Xen hypervisor
> • Evolved into XenServer, a product of Citrix, Now up to version 6.2
> (released June 2013)
> • Became an open source project in 2013
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xen
> The University of Cambridge Computer Laboratory developed the first
> versions of Xen. The Xen Project community develops and maintains Xen
> Project as free and open-source software, subject to the requirements
> of the GNU General Public License (GPL), version 2. Xen Project is
> currently available for the IA-32, x86-64 and ARM instruction sets.
>
>
>
>


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Re: Debian 9 "Stretch" released, June 17th, 2017

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On 19 June 2017 at 09:44, Bob Edwards via linux <[hidden email]> wrote:
> All good things come to those who wait! (and wait and wait...) (OK,
> I am not, yet, a Debian developer, so I shouldn't be so negative...
> Good work Debian developers!!!).

I think I'm going to be writing off most of this afternoon upgrading
and then unbreaking my work machine...

>> Did I miss something? I understood Xen was proprietary?  So I am 4
>> years behind? Does Citrix own Xen, or is it owned by the Linux
>> Community and Citrix now only supports it?
>
>
> I always understood Xen to be FOSS. And I think it has been supported
> in Debian since 4.0 (Etch) (according to Wikipedia, anyway).

Xen was originally a research project at the University of Cambridge,
XenSource (later bought by Citrix) was the for-profit spinoff.

Apparently it's now a Linux Foundation-led thing, interesting...


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Re: Debian 9 "Stretch" released, June 17th, 2017

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On 19/06/17 10:25, Andrew Donnellan via linux wrote:
> On 19 June 2017 at 09:44, Bob Edwards via linux <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> All good things come to those who wait! (and wait and wait...) (OK,
>> I am not, yet, a Debian developer, so I shouldn't be so negative...
>> Good work Debian developers!!!).
>
> I think I'm going to be writing off most of this afternoon upgrading
> and then unbreaking my work machine...

Don't worry too much - I upgraded a laptop to Stretch in-place last year
without any major issues other than the changes that PHP7 brought
(which required a lot of trawling through /var/log/apache2/error.log and
editing PHP files), and getting Gammaray to work. Though I've yet to
become comfortable with "routel" instead of "route", and "enp1s0"
instead of "eth0" - a minor niggle is that "dmesg" now requires the user
to run as root(?!).
cat /usr/local/bin/dmsg
#!/bin/bash

su -c "dmesg | grep -iA2 'warn\|fail\|error\|alert\|segfault'"

Discover (KDE), Shashlik, and KDEConnect are awesome, other changes are
not so obvious. The only real issue is KOrganizer which sometimes fails
to open Calendars without a restart (but then the KDE PIM has never
completely worked to my satisfaction - *cough*KMail sux*cough*).

With the exception of Firefox everything seems to run quicker and
lighter (and PaleMoon is much quicker than Firefox anyway).

https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/releasenotes

Congratulations and many thanks to Debian.org

<snipped>


Kind regards

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Re: Debian 9 "Stretch" released, June 17th, 2017

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On 19 June 2017 at 10:54, Scott Ferguson via linux
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Don't worry too much - I upgraded a laptop to Stretch in-place last year
> without any major issues other than the changes that PHP7 brought
> (which required a lot of trawling through /var/log/apache2/error.log and
> editing PHP files), and getting Gammaray to work. Though I've yet to
> become comfortable with "routel" instead of "route", and "enp1s0"
> instead of "eth0" - a minor niggle is that "dmesg" now requires the user
> to run as root(?!).
> cat /usr/local/bin/dmsg
> #!/bin/bash
>
> su -c "dmesg | grep -iA2 'warn\|fail\|error\|alert\|segfault'"
>
> Discover (KDE), Shashlik, and KDEConnect are awesome, other changes are
> not so obvious. The only real issue is KOrganizer which sometimes fails
> to open Calendars without a restart (but then the KDE PIM has never
> completely worked to my satisfaction - *cough*KMail sux*cough*).
>
> With the exception of Firefox everything seems to run quicker and
> lighter (and PaleMoon is much quicker than Firefox anyway).

I run Sid at home, I just feel like my employer would rather me not
break my workstation on a regular basis so I choose to run stable on
my work machines, but my colleagues who run Arch would disagree
there...

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Re: Debian 9 "Stretch" released, June 17th, 2017

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On 19/06/17 12:03, Andrew Donnellan via linux wrote:

> On 19 June 2017 at 10:54, Scott Ferguson via linux
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Don't worry too much - I upgraded a laptop to Stretch in-place last year
>> without any major issues other than the changes that PHP7 brought
>> (which required a lot of trawling through /var/log/apache2/error.log and
>> editing PHP files), and getting Gammaray to work. Though I've yet to
>> become comfortable with "routel" instead of "route", and "enp1s0"
>> instead of "eth0" - a minor niggle is that "dmesg" now requires the user
>> to run as root(?!).
>> cat /usr/local/bin/dmsg
>> #!/bin/bash
>>
>> su -c "dmesg | grep -iA2 'warn\|fail\|error\|alert\|segfault'"
>>
>> Discover (KDE), Shashlik, and KDEConnect are awesome, other changes are
>> not so obvious. The only real issue is KOrganizer which sometimes fails
>> to open Calendars without a restart (but then the KDE PIM has never
>> completely worked to my satisfaction - *cough*KMail sux*cough*).
>>
>> With the exception of Firefox everything seems to run quicker and
>> lighter (and PaleMoon is much quicker than Firefox anyway).
>
> I run Sid at home, I just feel like my employer would rather me not
> break my workstation

:-D

For the benefit for non-Debian initiates -
Debian Unstable is always called "Sid". Debian releases are named after
characters in the animated movie "Toy Story". "Sid" is the child
next-door who is forever breaking toys...

Every couple of years "Sid" features are frozen and it become the
"Testing"*1 until all major bugs are gone - then it becomes "Stable"*2.

So "Stable" has had years of testing before release - "Unstable", not so
much. (Some recent software/versions are "backported" to "Stable" in a
separate "Stable Backports" repository).

*1 and given the name of a character from "Toy Story". Dunno what
happens after "Buster" and "Bullseye" - does anyone?
*2(and the previous "Stable" becomes "Old Stable" - there is also
"Experimental" which is candidates for "Unstable").


> on a regular basis so I choose to run stable on
> my work machines, but my colleagues who run Arch would disagree
> there...

(Nice example of "enlightened self-interest"!)

Stable == less maintenance, more time available for work.
Unstable for new features at the cost of constant updates and (slightly)
less time available for work due to updates and "glitch time".

My limited experience with Arch/Slack/Gentoo was that they seemed to
provide a little less uncomfortable seat on the "bleeding edge" than
Debian Unstable as a work OS.


Kind regards

--
    A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right.
    Q: Why should I start my reply below the quoted text?

    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
    Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

    A: The lost context.
    Q: What makes top-posted replies harder to read than bottom-posted?

    A: Yes.
    Q: Should I trim down the quoted part of an email to which I'm reply

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Re: Debian 9 "Stretch" released, June 17th, 2017

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In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
On 19 Jun 2017 10:25, "Andrew Donnellan" <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think I'm going to be writing off most of this afternoon upgrading
and then unbreaking my work machine...


Well, after spending around two hours trying to figure out a strange
interaction between systemd and dbus that was causing every package script
that tried to start services to hang... the upgrade appears to be going
smoothly enough. I might even get out of the office by dinner time!
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Re: Debian 9 "Stretch" released, June 17th, 2017

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On 19/06/17 17:12, Andrew Donnellan via linux wrote:
> Well, after spending around two hours trying to figure out a strange
> interaction between systemd and dbus that was causing every package script
> that tried to start services to hang... the upgrade appears to be going
> smoothly enough. I might even get out of the office by dinner time!

Reminds me of this: https://xkcd.com/349/



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Debian 9 "Stretch" 64 bit only

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    I read today that Debian 9 is 64 bit only. It seems that many
Linux distributions have now stopped supporting 32 processors.


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Re: Debian 9 "Stretch" 64 bit only

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On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 08:15:21PM +1000, George at Clug via linux wrote:
>     I read today that Debian 9 is 64 bit only. It seems that many
> Linux distributions have now stopped supporting 32 processors.

On what architecture?

This is debian of Borg after all

 The following are the officially supported architectures for Debian 9:

    32-bit PC (i386) and 64-bit PC (amd64)

    64-bit ARM (arm64)

    ARM EABI (armel)

    ARMv7 (EABI hard-float ABI, armhf)

    MIPS (mips (big-endian) and mipsel (little-endian))

    64-bit little-endian MIPS (mips64el)

    64-bit little-endian PowerPC (ppc64el)

    IBM System z (s390x)


They have however dropped powerpc

Still supporting i386 so no worries you can still install debian on your 486

        See You
            Steve

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i breathe too much anyway, i can do that anyday
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Debian 9 "Stretch" and Intel Core i9-7980XE (18-core, 36-threads)

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    Well I was about to get a P4 IDE bus only motherboard to use
Linux, but maybe I should upgrade to an Intel Core i9-7980XE (18-core,
36-threads)

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/107017-intel-core-i9-7900x-14nm-skylake-x/

$1,999 for the all-singing, all-dancing Core i9-7980XE. Said chip will
boast a whopping 18 cores and 36 threads, but isn't expected to ship
until Q4.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/105772-amd-unveils-roadmap-ryzen-threadripper-ryzen-3-apus/
As we have previously discovered via various leaks these Zen-based
CPUs will offer up to 16-cores and 32-threads with a new platform with
expanded memory and I/O bandwidth, designed for the High-End Desktop
(HEDT) market.


http://www.pcworld.com/article/3199955/components-processors/intel-core-i9-prices-specs-release-date-features-faqs.html
Just weeks after AMD disclosed its massive 16-core,
32-thread Threadripper chip [1], Intel dropped its bomb: The Core i9
family will have up to 18 cores and 36 threads, making them possibly
the most powerful consumer PC chips ever made..



Core i9 Extreme Edition:



        * Core i9-7980XE: 18 cores/36 threads, $1,999 
Core i9:

 

        * Core i9-7960X: 16 cores/32 threads, $1,699
        * Core i9-7940X: 14 cores/28 threads, $1,399
        * Core i9-7920X: 12 cores/24 threads, $1,199
        * Core i9-7900X (3.3GHz): 10 cores/20 threads, $999 
Core i7: 



        * Core i7 7820X (3.6GHZ), 8 cores/16 threads, $599
        * Core i7-7800X (3.5GHz), 6 cores/12 threads, $389
        * Core i7-7740X (4.3GHz), 4 cores/8 threads, $339  
Core i5:



        * Core i5-7640X (4.0 GHz), 4 cores, 4 threads, $242
http://www.techradar.com/news/intel-core-x-processor-preorders-begin-next-week








Here's the pricing breakdown for the processors:



        * Intel Core i5-7640X (4.0-4.2GHz, 4-core, 4-threads): $242 (about
£180, AU$320)
        * Intel Core i7-7740X (4.3-4.5GHz, 4-core, 8-threads): $339 (about
£270, AU$450)
        * Intel Core i7-7800X (3.5-4.0GHz, 6-core, 12-threads): $389 (about
£310, AU$515)
        * Intel Core i7-7820X (3.6-4.3GHz, 6-core, 12-threads): $599 (about
£470, AU$795)
        * Intel Core i9-7900X (3.3-4.5GHz, 10-core, 20-threads): $999 (about
£790, AU$1,325)
        * Intel Core i9-7920X (12-core, 24-threads): $1,199 (about £950,
AU$1,590)
        * Intel Core i9-7940X (14-core, 28-threads): $1,399 (about £1,100,
AU$1,855)
        * Intel Core i9-7960X (16-core, 32-threads): $1,699 (about £1,340,
AU$2,250)
        * Intel Core i9-7980XE (18-core, 36-threads): $1,999 (about £1,580,
AU$2,651)


Links:
------
[1]
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3197147/components-processors/its-official-amds-threadripper-will-bring-a-16-core-32-thread-monster-to-the-desktop.html

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Re: Debian 9 "Stretch" 64 bit only, or just dropping support for some older 32-bit CPUs

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In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
    Steve,

It seems there are too many CPU configurations in existence for me to
wrap my head around, and has let me to miss understand the reports
about dropping support for "older 32-bit CPUs". It would seem that
this statement did not mean all 32 bit CPUs just some of the older
versions of 32 bit CPUs.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/debian-is-dropping-support-for-older-32-bit-hardware-architectures-in-debian-9-503832.shtml

https://fossbytes.com/debian-is-dropping-support-for-older-32-bit-hardware-in-debian-9/

https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.html


2.1. SUPPORTED ARCHITECTURES



 Debian 9 introduces one new architecture:




        *

 64-bit little-endian MIPS (mips64el)



Debian 9 regrettably removes support for the following architecture:




        *

 PowerPC (powerpc)



The following are the officially supported architectures for Debian 9:





        *

 32-bit PC (i386) and 64-bit PC (amd64)


        *

 64-bit ARM (arm64)


        *

 ARM EABI (armel)


        *

 ARMv7 (EABI hard-float ABI, armhf)


        *

 MIPS (mips (big-endian) and mipsel (little-endian))


        *

 64-bit little-endian MIPS (mips64el)


        *

 64-bit little-endian PowerPC (ppc64el)


        *

 IBM System z (s390x)



https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20170617.en.html



A total of ten architectures are supported: 64-bit PC / Intel EM64T /
x86-64 (amd64), 32-bit PC / Intel IA-32 (i386), 64-bit little-endian
Motorola/IBM PowerPC (ppc64el), 64-bit IBM S/390 (s390x), for ARM,
armel and armhf for older and more recent 32-bit hardware, plus arm64
for the 64-bit AArch64 architecture, and for MIPS, in addition to the
two 32-bit mips (big-endian) and mipsel (little-endian), there is a
new mips64el architecture for 64-bit little-endian hardware. Support
for 32-bit Motorola/IBM PowerPC (powerpc) has been removed in Stretch.










http://linuxnews.2daygeek.com/2016/05/09/debian-dropped-i386-architecture-support/



he following processors, supported in jessie, are now unsupported.



        * AMD K5, K6, K6-2 (aka K6 3D), K6-3
        * DM&P/SiS Vortex86, Vortex86SX
        * Cyrix III, MediaGX, MediaGXm
        * IDT Winchip C6, Winchip 2
        * Intel Pentium, Pentium with MMX
        * Rise mP6
        * VIA C3 ‘Samuel 2’, C3 ‘Ezra’
George.







At Monday, 19-06-2017 on 20:31 Steven Hanley wrote:


On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 08:15:21PM +1000, George at Clug via linux
wrote:
>     I read today that Debian 9 is 64 bit only. It seems that
many
> Linux distributions have now stopped supporting 32 processors.

On what architecture?

This is debian of Borg after all

The following are the officially supported architectures for Debian 9:

    32-bit PC (i386) and 64-bit PC (amd64)

    64-bit ARM (arm64)

    ARM EABI (armel)

    ARMv7 (EABI hard-float ABI, armhf)

    MIPS (mips (big-endian) and mipsel (little-endian))

    64-bit little-endian MIPS (mips64el)

    64-bit little-endian PowerPC (ppc64el)

    IBM System z (s390x)


They have however dropped powerpc

Still supporting i386 so no worries you can still install debian on
your 486

See You
    Steve

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i will lean into you, and you can be the wind
i will open up my mouth, and you can come rushing in
you can rush in so hard, and make it so i can't breathe
i breathe too much anyway, i can do that anyday
   Anyday - Puddle Dive - Ani


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Re: Debian 9 "Stretch" released, June 17th, 2017

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In reply to this post by Samba - linux mailing list
On 19/06/17 17:12, Andrew Donnellan via linux wrote:

> On 19 Jun 2017 10:25, "Andrew Donnellan" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I think I'm going to be writing off most of this afternoon upgrading
> and then unbreaking my work machine...
>
>
> Well, after spending around two hours trying to figure out a strange
> interaction between systemd and dbus that was causing every package script
> that tried to start services to hang... the upgrade appears to be going
> smoothly enough. I might even get out of the office by dinner time!
>

One work machine? Boo-hoo.

I have three physical machines at home and three hosted VPS's all
running Jessie (well, not all of them anymore), plus around 25
containers on those six hosts - and that is just my non-work
machines... (oh yeah, and some VirtualBox instances on various
family laptops...).

So far, the upgrades have been living up to the usual legendary
Debian upgrade goodness.

My work management system tells there are 75 servers running
Jessie (and now three running Stretch)... I'll get onto my main
work desktop near the end of the process... (the other desktop
has been running testing/Stretch for months now)

Goodbye Jessie - you served us well and we will miss you...

cheers,

Bob Edwards.

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Re: Debian 9 "Stretch" released, June 17th, 2017

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On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Bob Edwards via linux <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> <snip> plus around 25
> containers on those six hosts - </snip>


Not a lot of upgrades needed there I'm thinking...

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Re: Debian 9 "Stretch" released, June 17th, 2017

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On 20/06/17 17:24, Michael Carden wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Bob Edwards via linux
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     <snip> plus around 25
>     containers on those six hosts - </snip>
>
>
> Not a lot of upgrades needed there I'm thinking...
>
> --
> crash
>

Some of my less-frequently used containers are still on Wheezy...

I better upgrade the ones I care about before Stretch becomes old-stable
(nah - I've got years ahead to worry about that happening...)

cheers,

Bob Edwards.

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